Russia offers Joint Venture for Submarines constructions with India

eagle

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SOURCE: ET

India has received a joint submarine design and construction proposal from Russia to build on the technology transfer acquired while building the nuclear fleet, and promises to drastically reduce the cost of Navy’s next-generation vessel plan.

The proposal, believed to have been discussed at the top level during the Sochi summit in May, offers an alternative to an upcoming $10 b P 75I tender for six new diesel electric submarines that the Navy requires. These are to be fitted with an Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system that significantly increases their ability to stay underwater.

“The Russian side has offered a transfer of all intellectual property for the design and prototype construction. This will mean that there are also no limits to the number of submarines that can be built under the project…,” officials familiar with the details told ET.

While the current plan is to go in for a global competitive process that will involve companies from Russia, France, Germany and Sweden, the official proposal from Moscow is for a government-to-government deal for joint design with the Advanced Technology Vessel Project (ATVP). This is the project that gave India its first nuclear armed submarine, the INS Arihant, which was constructed in Vizag with considerable assistance from Russia.

A line of nuclear armed and nuclear powered submarines will be rolled out under the project which has completed the Indian nuclear triad — the ability to launch warheads from air, land and underwater.

Sources told ET that the proposal is for joint design and building of a prototype, following which the technical knowhow and papers would be transferred to the selected Indian shipyard for construction. The design consultancy for the project is pegged at under $200 million, something that could result in savings of immediate payments for the Navy for its next-generation submarines.

Under the competitive process, an initial payment of over $ 2 billion (20% of total cost) might be necessary, which given the Navy’s current budget projections, seems difficult. The proposal seeks to design the submarine to meet Indian requirements, including installation of the Brahmos missiles on board, as well as a jointly developed AIP system with the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

Sources involved in the Indian nuclear submarine project said that the proposal can build on the technology that has already been transferred to India but has to be scrutinized carefully to ensure that critical knowhow is not held back. Several parts required under the proposal are already being produced in India, including high strength steel for submarine hulls.
 
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RohitKohli

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Accept this asap please MoD! Also, continue with DCNS to build another 9 nos. of Advanced AIP Scorpenes at MZD.
 

Victor

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Utterly Butterly Delicious - But Cost remains the trouble point which should be worked out strictly especially for such a project. It should not face difficulties or end up like FGFA.
 

Nav_Ind

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GOI should consider this and rope in L&T for this project. But I think for this offer, 75i should not be sacrificed. Even if the deal goes ahead, it will take years of negotiations an agreements. Price increase over the years will also be a factor. But overall its a good offer for joint development of submarines.
 

kira

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More clarity required.
If true,it can be compared with any potential French proposal regarding SSN tech.
Whoever offers more advanced capabilities with greater ToT for competitive costs can be partnered with in the future.
Let the French and Russians battle it out.
Advantage-
-Advanced and reliable tech and quicker deliveries of SSNs.
-No extensive testing or teething issues will likely arise because the design will be matured and testing will be done in league with tie up partner.
Disadvantage-
-Since,number of any SSN/SSBN required will be a handful like 4/5 of each.There is not much scope for enjoying large orders mirroring that of USN,so Russian allowance for no limits on potential numbers is quite impractical.
-Also,the construction times for nuke subs are large,so any potential tech shared by Russians/French will be very dated by say 2040s,when newer class of advanced SSNs will be required.
-Perhaps,most crucially this may potentially derail R&D and design expertise by direct injection of ready made foreign tech and components.Previous such instances of "joint development" like MKI,Mig-21 or Brahmos delivered products,but drastically affected domestic development of said tech.
 

kira

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Wow... This is a very good offer. Joint dev with complete TOT. Go for it.
If they are really offering complete ToT,then why are they saying a JV like Brahmos.
This looks like that Russians may be offering the bread,but keeping the jam/butter hidden,so that India will dependent on them for decades to come,while they make hefty profits on that.
 

Himansu

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10 submarines are under consideration behind this JV...These numbers are likely to increase. i think, it will be cost effective to go through this way..if you buy Western subs, it will cost you a lot..
 

Utshab

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If they are really offering complete ToT,then why are they saying a JV like Brahmos.
This looks like that Russians may be offering the bread,but keeping the jam/butter hidden,so that India will dependent on them for decades to come,while they make hefty profits on that.
Ab sabkuch Russia hi karega to India kya karega. India also has tech baba. A brahmos like collaboration is always welcome. On top they are helping us out with nuke sub as well. What more do we want. Is France offering nuke help?
 

Prasanna_Khakre

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Very good proposal ensure a studied and detailed analytical response to this proposal after ensuring that Russia not just transfers IPRs but also transfer all technology like in case of Brahmos is done. Although in the initial stages seeker and RAMJET engines technology was not transferred in Brahmos but its experience propelled Indian scientists in Brahmos corp to develop seeker as well as engine indigenously.
 

Ray

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Accept this asap please MoD! Also, continue with DCNS to build another 9 nos. of Advanced AIP Scorpenes at MZD.
Yes too right,
right now IN need to replace its complete fleet of conventional submarines so a single manufacturing line can't fulfill the demand. So GoI need to rope the Russians with L&T and NDB, and build at least 10-15 submarines.
MDL is with French or swedish designs.
HSL for SSNs and SSBNs.
 

Sam

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Useless, RUSSIA is a mafia country, It's a trap to extort money from us. We have developed fully our AIP. India need Full transfer of cutting edge technology with know WHY also not only know how. Russian submarine design is not cutting edge in present generation
 

Sir_Captain

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Nothing is ever truthful when it comes to Russia. Russia is only doing this to circumvent sanctions. All of a sudden India is a friend? All this will change once sanctions are lifted and it will be business as usual to screw India.
 

Indian_First

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If they are really offering complete ToT,then why are they saying a JV like Brahmos.
This looks like that Russians may be offering the bread,but keeping the jam/butter hidden,so that India will dependent on them for decades to come,while they make hefty profits on that.
Fully agree. Even today Russia has not transferred TOT for Brahmos, T90 tanks and Su-30 fighters. So be lot more careful this time and do not give them $200 millions as we did in past for development of 5th Gen fighters. In fact we must pay them as we go along not in front.
 

Indian_First

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Useless, RUSSIA is a mafia country, It's a trap to extort money from us. We have developed fully our AIP. India need Full transfer of cutting edge technology with know WHY also not only know how. Russian submarine design is not cutting edge in present generation
You are absolute right. By the way who is buying Russians Sub these days. No one except Vietnam.
 

Indian_First

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Nothing is ever truthful when it comes to Russia. Russia is only doing this to circumvent sanctions. All of a sudden India is a friend? All this will change once sanctions are lifted and it will be business as usual to screw India.
Agree. In peace time they are best friend of China and also but look at us when they are in trouble. We must not get in this trap this time,
 

ksh

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Useless, RUSSIA is a mafia country, It's a trap to extort money from us. We have developed fully our AIP. India need Full transfer of cutting edge technology with know WHY also not only know how. Russian submarine design is not cutting edge in present generation
mafia country ? u r not aware of tangent of india russia relationship. trusted brothers.
 

Rohan

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GOI should consider this and rope in L&T for this project. But I think for this offer, 75i should not be sacrificed. Even if the deal goes ahead, it will take years of negotiations an agreements. Price increase over the years will also be a factor. But overall its a good offer for joint development of submarines.
This is a very good offer . Russia has already helped us with our current SSBNs.But we need to be extra careful with negotiations.Past deals like Vikramaditya, FGFA have gone against us .
 
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